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Talk:Skill
New version I finally got my version in. Any comments on how this compares to NWN2Wiki:Skill?--The Krit 00:39, 3 January 2006 (PST) *It's kinda meandering, especially the first bit about sorcerers or something--Defunc7 09:28, 3 January 2006 (PST) :*True, I never did get the article organized the way I would like it to be. After a couple of revisions, I decided to post it and let it sit for a few days (or a few weeks, depending on what happens in my life). That gives me a chance to think it over, and to get some feedback on it. So far, I've gotten two good points to consider: better organization, and less dry humor. Thanks! (Yesterday, when I was asking for comments, I had intended to mention that I consider this a draft, but it seems I neglected that. Yet another sign that it was time to take a break.)--The Krit 10:14, 4 January 2006 (PST) Synergy No mention of Skill Synergy? Yanno 5 ranks in Hide = +2 Spot ect? Mask 14:42, 28 May 2006 (PDT) * 5 ranks in hide does not give 2 ranks to spot. Harleyquin 18:52, 28 May 2006 (PDT) Prerequisite ranks Is this statement true? "A skill level listed as a "Prerequisite" is based on unmodified ranks (per ability modifier and/or applicable feats) of that skill."--Iconclast 16:45, August 17, 2010 (UTC) * If you mean "pre" instead of "per", then yes. --The Krit 04:41, August 18, 2010 (UTC) :* Yes. My bad. Was curious about any possible exceptions to what seemed to be a firm rule. Thanks, as usual, TK. ;)--Iconclast 13:34, August 18, 2010 (UTC) Hardcoded limits i think it would be very helpful to list in the article what the hardcoded limits to skills are, esp. for developers' use. for example, i have heard that there's a hardcoded +50 cap to skills, and that no skill may exceed 127 including all modifications from all sources -- but i don't know if this is true or just hearsay. 06:20, December 27, 2012 (UTC) :These are true for all scripted saving throws (although the 1d20 roll is added to the 127 cap). Hardcoded rolls are harder to nail down. The synergy bonus to disable and set traps (present in hard-code not in script), for example, allows a further adjustment beyond 127, and I have no idea what cap restrictions are on the detection rolls which do not even have a display. WhiZard (talk) 15:27, December 27, 2012 (UTC) Skill bonus cap and ability modifier Does ability modifier count towards +50 bonus skill cap to skills? Szafirmag (talk) 16:05, April 14, 2013 (UTC) * There is a reason that the ability modifier is conspicuously missing from the statement "Bonuses from items and spells typically stack, to a cap of +50." Although, I suppose that should get revised since it is not clear that in that context "spell" means anything from spells.2da, not just spellbook spells. --The Krit (talk) 21:50, April 14, 2013 (UTC) More about skill bonus cap Each skill has an associated ability. The ability modifier is added to the number of ranks to produce the character's level of competence in the skill. This number can be further modified by feats, items, and various effects (from spells and the like). Bonuses from items and effects typically stack, to a cap of +50. The last sentence seems to indicate that feat bonuses are not necessarily included when calculating contributions towards the cap. Which count and which do not? I am assuming cleric domain special abilities are handled like spells in this respect. Here is what I extrapolate about skill bonus bestowed by feats (and ability modifiers) via wiki articles (revised) (final revision): Does not count toward cap Alertness (spot, listen) Artist (perform, spot) Bardic knowledge (lore) Blooded (spot) Bullheaded (concentration) Courteous magocracy (lore, spellcraft) Epic reputation (bluff, intimidate, persuade, taunt) Epic skill focus/skill focus (any) Improved parry (parry) Partial skill affinity (listen) Partial skill affinity (search) Partial skill affinity (spot) Silver palm (appraise, persuade) Skill affinity (concentration) Skill affinity (listen) Skill affinity (lore) Skill affinity (move silently) Skill affinity (search) Skill affinity (spot) Small stature (hide) Stealthy (hide, move silently) Stonecunning (search interior) Thug (persuade) Trackless step (hide/move silently, in wilderness) Ability modifier up to the +12 ability cap (i.e. +6 modifier for all associated skills) Counts toward cap Barbarian rage/greater/mighty (CON-based skills) Bard song (all skills) Divine Trickery (hide, persuade, search, disable trap, move silently, open lock, pick pocket) Oath of wrath (all skills) Terrifying rage (intimate) Not sure Bullheaded - is Concentration skill of feat owner increased? Divine Trickery (hide, persuade, search, disable trap, move silently, open lock, pick pocket) Improved parry - stacks with skill focus so does not count? Oath of wrath - probably doesn't count due to contingent stacking per race Terrifying rage - intimate + 1d10 I'm only guessing, but if a feat that bestows a skill bonus is listed in the spells.2da it counts toward the skill cap. Those not listed do not. Please adjust the list according to the actual status in-game. Thank you. --Iconclast (talk) 00:22, October 14, 2013 (UTC)''--- edited list''--Iconclast (talk) 13:55, October 14, 2013 (UTC) * If you were to separate the bonuses into the categories "always on" and "must be activated", how well would that correspond to your above lists? (If you want to get more technical, a feat that grants a skill bonus upon activation will do so via an effect.) --The Krit (talk) 04:37, October 14, 2013 (UTC) :* That helps a lot, TK. Terrifying Rage is still not clear, though. It is listed as automatic, but is associated with another feat (rage) that "must be activated". Advice? --Iconclast (talk) 13:55, October 14, 2013 (UTC) ::* It's automatic in the sense that you never have to tell the computer "get your terrifying rage on", but it's not automatic in the sense of "always on". It's more like a two-for-one deal: activate your rage, and get terrifying rage turned on at no additional cost. :) So... think in terms of a feat being activated, even if it is not that particular feat. --The Krit (talk) 02:49, October 15, 2013 (UTC) :* Hmmm. I just realized a related issue regarding the rationale you posed, TK. Does it only apply to feats or also abilities? For example, is equipping items which reach the +12 ability cap (+6 to skills) differ in how they count towards the skill cap? Equipping them does not fall into the "must be activated" category, not in the conventional sense, anyway. However, achieving the same +12 (+6 skill) boost via buffs would fall into that category? I've read the article and talk very thoroughly, but still can't get a handle on the relationship of ability modifiers to the skill cap. I seem to remember testing this once quite a while ago, but don't recall my results. Could you jog my memory, please? TIA, as usual. --Iconclast (talk) 15:30, October 14, 2013 (UTC) ::* Indirect bonuses are not classified by their ultimate origin, but by the "last step" in the chain. A +2 ring of strength does eventually raise discipline by +1, but it goes through a chain of modifiers. The ring increases the strength score (first link). Increasing the strength score increases the strength modifier (second link). Increasing the strength modifier increases the discipline skill (last link). When it comes time to do a discipline check, the ring is a factor, but its role is obscured by simply being a contributor to the strength modifier. It is not part of the +50 cap. ::: This concept is not particular to gaming. Unfortunately, I have only a weak example at the moment. One of the more common discounts available with car insurance is a "good student" discount. (You're going to have to roleplay if you're too old for this discount. ;) ) The insurance premium is going to play the role of the skill check, while your grades correspond to the ability modifier -- better grades/abilities improve your chances for getting the discount / passing the skill check. That extra credit assignment you did for World History is going to play the role of your ring of strength -- the assignment augmented your grade, just as the ring augments strength. Now think about talking to an insurance agent. You just handed over your report card in the hope of getting a good student discount. Are you now going to bring up the extra credit assignment in order to improve your chances? Or was that already included in your report card? Does the insurance agent really want to look into every factor that went into your grades? Does the computer want to look at every strength augmentation to classify each with regards to affecting skills? No, the computer wants nothing, as it has no brain. :) But regardless, it does not have a second way to calculate ability modifiers specifically for skills. The ability modifier is some number, and how it become that number does not matter. Add the current modifier to the skill ranks, then move on to passive feats plus the things subject to the +50 cap. --The Krit (talk) 02:49, October 15, 2013 (UTC) :::* And I thought I was the king of analogies. :o I stand corrected. :) In any case, it is all clear now. Thank you for spending the extra time to elaborate in such detail. It makes a difference. --Iconclast (talk) 03:41, October 15, 2013 (UTC)